tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post9023457298906296365..comments2023-10-17T02:52:20.176-06:00Comments on PHS Theory of Knowledge: Belief vs. truthJ.Malonehttp://www.blogger.com/profile/18172827782199289643noreply@blogger.comBlogger7125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-12718431217409678112008-12-10T00:31:00.000-07:002008-12-10T00:31:00.000-07:00In other words... differing perceptions of reality...In other words... differing perceptions of reality make complete agreement impossible. So yes. This entire argument is a demonstration of the absurdity of existence.Ian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308472410612781056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-74189684560244157212008-12-06T11:00:00.000-07:002008-12-06T11:00:00.000-07:00OK, you said, "One must define one's own terms." ...OK, you said, "One must define one's own terms." That means that we will never have the same definitions to work with, and we could just keep arguing back and forth for ever. If we cannot agree on definitions, there's no point in bickering.Ryan Beethehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629214210025516942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-6398049236926598122008-12-03T00:38:00.000-07:002008-12-03T00:38:00.000-07:00Perhaps. But if differing definitions of reality l...Perhaps. But if differing definitions of reality lead to different interpretations of truth and perception and different reactions based on circumstances and preconceived notions regarding what is real and what is not, you will have several interpretations of reality, none of which can be entirely proved or disproved. I argue that perception of reality becomes a part of reality once it is acted upon because the future will be changed by interpretation of the perception of past and present. Of course it can also be argued that it was not reality until it was acted upon, but nevertheless perception of an issue changes our actions. <BR/><BR/>History is written by the winners. Advertising is effective through manipulation of perception of a product or service, driving commerce. <BR/><BR/>Our interpretation of what we perceive to be real is what we act upon, and the physical world (the 'truth', if you will) is merely a limiting factor so long as we don't argue that the physical world through biochemistry is the sole driving force behind our perceptions, which I think most people will agree is not the case due to choice. <BR/><BR/>With regard to the OED, Prometheus didn't bring us an infallible dictionary that defines the truth and cannot be questioned; there is significant bias in making the claim that there is one universal definition for a word in a given context. One must define one's own terms, and perception plays into how one defines truth and reality. <BR/><BR/>For instance, your acceptance of the OED as an authority and particularly the way you stated it, 'hav[ing] to bust out the OED', reveal overwhelming confirmation bias on your part, and you've left out any source that might suggest otherwise.Ian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308472410612781056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-37544321261557450462008-11-01T16:25:00.000-06:002008-11-01T16:25:00.000-06:00First of all, I think I did justify my claims fair...First of all, I think I did justify my claims fairly well, and you never identified which ones I missed.<BR/><BR/>Second, you have not made a consistent argument. First you said, "My point was not that perception is truth." Later you said, "If that perception is then acted on, it becomes part of the truth." Either a perception is either completely accurate (true) or not completely accurate (false). Therefore, acting on a perception cannot always make it "part of the truth," because some perceptions are just not true.<BR/><BR/>OK, now I'll have to bust out the OED. The fifth definition of "reality" which is labeled "Philosophy:" is as such: "existence that is absolute, self-sufficient, or objective, and not subject to human decisions or conventions." Therefore, I am not confusing reality with truth. Both are absolute and neither are subject to perception.<BR/><BR/>Therefore, a perception is true if and only if it corresponds with reality and truth. Also, you said, "the truth is not exclusively comprised of perception," but the truth is (ha ha, bad pun!) that the truth is not comprised of perceptions at all.Ryan Beethehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629214210025516942noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-2764735035100343742008-09-30T20:23:00.000-06:002008-09-30T20:23:00.000-06:00Oh, and for good measure - In your perception.Oh, and for good measure - <BR/><BR/>In your perception.Ian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308472410612781056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-91495317048964077192008-09-28T21:32:00.000-06:002008-09-28T21:32:00.000-06:00Beethe, you're entitled to your opinion, but I thi...Beethe, you're entitled to your opinion, but I think you need to justify it some more. <BR/><BR/>My point was not that perception is truth, but rather that we cannot tell the difference between truth and perception if we perceive something as true. I believe that truth matters, but only in the future, because the past and present can be altered through a change in perception. If that perception is then acted on, it becomes part of the truth. However, because the future is limited by the physical world, the truth is not exclusively comprised of perception. <BR/><BR/>Also, reality will vary from person to person, so I don't believe I've misused the word "reality" - I think that you're actually confusing reality with truth. I define reality as truth viewed through the lens of perception, but if reality exists only in the present and a change in perception can change the present, reality is perception - albeit only in the present. As for past realities, they influence the perception of the present to form the present reality. <BR/><BR/>You can perceive "I have walked through a brick wall". You can perceive "I am currently walking through a brick wall". These can seem true to you because the past and present are not limited by the physical world. <BR/><BR/>You cannot, however, perceive "I will walk through a brick wall", because the physical world prevents you from doing so (that is, unless there is no brick wall in front of you, which is a perception of present). <BR/><BR/>Perception becomes reality through its influence on our actions, regardless of truth. The Matrix is a good (though unreal, in my perception) example of this.Ian Bhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/17308472410612781056noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-16838489.post-62801745313018321472008-09-27T14:40:00.000-06:002008-09-27T14:40:00.000-06:00You said: "What we believe as real or perceive as ...You said: "What we believe as real or perceive as real becomes real simply by the act of perceiving it so." This is simply not the case.<BR/><BR/>To begin with, that which is real is true in existence. That is to say, something physical is real if and only if it truly physically exists. An event is real if and only if it truly occurred. However, we can alter reality by creating something physical just like we can create a perception. So while a perception itself becomes real just by perceiving it (since it truly exists), what you said was not true.<BR/><BR/>You claimed that that about which we perceive (an object, event--something in reality) truly exists simply because we perceive it. This is like truth by declaration; just as a declaration of what is true cannot define truth, neither can a perception of what is real define what reality.<BR/><BR/>If I perceive that a bug bit me, but I only imagined it, then so be it. The bug still didn't bite me--it doesn't matter what I perceive. You might say that in my own reality, the bug did actually bite me, but that's a misuse of the word "reality". You are defining someone's "reality" as one person's perception of reality. But again, since perception doesn't make that which is being perceived real, me perceiving reality differently than it truly exists doesn't create another reality.<BR/><BR/>So here's my theory about beliefs vs reality: A belief is true if it corresponds with reality. The obvious implication of this is that two conflicting beliefs cannot both be true. Either one is false and the other is true, or they're both false. Each person might perceive their own belief as true or real, but that does not define the truth or reality of said belief.Ryan Beethehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/06629214210025516942noreply@blogger.com