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PHS IB TOK at Play!
The purpose of this blog is to open a discussion forum for ideas, ramblings, debates, and random thoughts that pass through the heads of the students presently in Poudre High School's Theory of Knowledge Program.
PHS IB TOK at Play!
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September
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13 comments:
No.
You not a language without verbs. Old English such a language because of how different the structure, but it impossible without verbs.
It still understandable, but hard. Problems without verbs. Everything incomplete sentances.
Ugh. Horrible.
Language without verbs possible. Sign language one, as African Click language maybe? Also, implied verbs not spoken, they implied. Thus it good. Phamalama also good point, primitive sign language good as well. That all for Vvinni. Bye.
O, spelling and capitalization, what ever happened to the summers we spent by the docks?
I'm sticking by my claim that language can exist without verbs. Ooh! Idea! Pictures. Pictures are a perfect form of language, and the don't use verbs because...they can't. They can show a verb, however the question did not imply any restrictions to showing verbs. Thus, pictures are a form of language without verbs. And, Big E, you are correct. African Click Language does not count. Well, I'm going to go continue my march through the blog commenting on anything and everything.
Cranium is a very amusing board game. I'm currently undefeated. Anyhoo, I think I see where your comming from, E, and I guess I could accept that. However, for me a language is something we use to communicate, thus since pictures are a form of communication, pictures can be counted as language. I'd rant on about this, but I think it's really just an interpretive thing, and I don't feel like pushing it.
Cranium Rocks!
Yes. I think this works, however to go against everything else I've said here, I'm going to disagree, because I want to write.
Your example of the language would not work, because the language still uses verbs, they are just in a different form.
Anyhoo, Pictures. Click Click Shoot.
Okay. Let me catch my mind. There we go, it was in my back pocket all along. Oh, that cvrazy mind.
So what are we writing about? Language? Verbs? Right.
I think that all language is is taking words, and applying meaning to them. Thus, without a....gah I give up. I'm tired of arguing, and this'll only create more holes. You win, Big E. This doesn't me I'll cease my quirky introjections though. Oh, No. They will live on!
I just have to jump in and say that I LOVE this thread. You are already getting at the heart of the problems of knoweledge that surround language as a way of knowing.
Just to add to the fun, what is it that separates human language from animal language? Is it syntax, or is it the ability to communicate abstract thoughts? And if it is the latter, does that validate Vinny's hypothesis that pictures can, indeed, be language?
I would say that there is nothing different between our language and animals language. Let me explain before you dig into my claim, Big E. Simply because we see animals as communicating in a series of barks, yelps, grunts, meows, does not mean they aren't speaking to eachother. Remember how little of the visual spectrum we see? Well, and please correct me if I'm wrong, we hear about the same of the "Sound Spectrum" if you will. It has been proven that elephants emit a low frequency sound, that the human ear cannot pick up. Who are we to say that they are not speaking, with or without verbs? It is only our egotistical human mind that causes us to think that animals do not have a language. If animals did not have language, then we wouldn't have language (because I hate to burst your bubble, but we're animals). I hope I've made my point elloquent.
Thus...I have nothing more to add to my picture argument. I believe it, others don't, get used to it.
YES. You can have an expressive language without verbs.
Verbs describe the state of a noun. This makes them similar to an adjective.
For example:
A. The dog runs.
B. The running dog.
These both convey a similar idea.
Likewise:
A. The dog is fast.
B. The fast dog.
The verb and adjective forms are almost interchangeable.
The main difference is that in the verb form (A), the dog is a given, and it is asserted as new information that the dog is in the act of running.
In the adjective form (B), the running dog is the given, and no new information is asserted.
If a hypothetical language were to have the ability to indicate what information is new, through another grammatical mechanism, then verbs would be wholly unnecessary.
Hi everybody, hi Peter.
I remember that I saw an interview (video or text, this I don't remember) of Paul Fromer, the father of the con-lang "Na'vi" for James Cameron's movie Avatar, in wich Dr. Fromer mentions about a linguist, a woman, american if my memory is good, who invented a spoken language without verbs.
Cause here we are: Peter's question from the beginning was not "can we remove verbs from English?" It was "would it be possible to have a language without verbs? and is there any?"
Tell me if I'm wrong Peter.
I'll try to find the name of this linguist (youtube-> interview Paul Frommer).
Ciao!
And here it is:
http://www.terjemar.net/
Enjoy!
I think it could be done. I read a Star Trek book where these aliens had a language without verbs. When the Universal Translator translated it, it was a lot to do with feelings such as "compliance," when ordered to do some thing, "feeling of remorse," as opposed to "I am sad," etc. It was very interesting.
Sample: "Query: not-you cause of death to Horr-Sav-Frerin?"
"Response: Not-I cause of death to Horr-Sav-Frerin. Cause of death: accident. Signs of innocence in all."
Of course, no actual texts of the language were provided, just the translations. But hopefully this is interesting. And Kelen looks interesting, eh-tonton. Good example.
Jack and Jill in a previous hill ascent for the purpose of water procurement.
Jack in a previous fall with a resultant coronal break, and Jill in a subsequent analogous tumble.
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