Thursday, September 06, 2007


The second sentence of the wikipage I feel adequately describes the intent of the Feminist movement: "Feminism is also described as an ideology focusing on equality of the sexes."

I am going to make a huge generalization here, but I imagine by that definition everyone here is a Feminist. I hope that that is the case.
However, as much as you may claim you are a feminist, I ask you girls: Have you ever asked a guy out? Would you, before this listing, have thought of proposing to a man? When I googled "Woman proposes to man" it blessed me a total of NINE finds.

Several of the ladies I know have attributed this to a fear of rejection that they for some reason think we are immune to. Some even said that guys wouldn't appreciate it, if the girl asked. I, personally, would have no problem with it.

So the questions are:
Girls: Why don't you ask people out?
Guys: What would you think of a girl asking you out?
All: Is anyone a feminist if they refuse to accept true equality, down to the social aspects of dating? Isn't it sexist to put all of that pressure on one half of the population?


Kenshin_Himura said...

Well, going back to the Miss. USA contest, as you stated earlier, anyone could have entered, yet if they were male, there is a guarantee that they wouldn't be accepted.

Now, in response for the first question:
I believe it would be nice for people to see exactly what it is like.
While channel surfing the other day, they were showing "Beauty and the Geek" (a show a typically have a slight distaste for)
Anyway, the challenge was for the girls to ask the guys out.
After all was said and done, when the girls spoke toward the camera they said it was extremely weird.
I believe that society has help build up the stereotype that men must always ask the women out...

And about the last question, logically it makes sense.
"Feminism is also described as an ideology focusing on equality of the sexes."
I have to use some sort of math to show it...
Therefore, M=W
If M asks W out,
Then W should ask M out...
If not, W does not equal M,
Which is kind of a contradiction to the original definition.

Elizabeth B said...
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katrina337 said...

I don't believe everyone here is a feminist, bway_guy did say he liked the idea of women staying home while the men went out to do the work, does that not deject feminism? But anyway, I don't believe half of the people who claim they are feminists really are feminists. I know I'm not. I really would like men and women to be equal, at least to a larger degree than at this point in time. But really, some people define feminism in different ways. In some people's definitions, feminism demands superiority of women (I can't find the one source in particular I found this on right now, but it did come from a woman, if that helps in some weird way). And even so, some whom wish for the equality don't want to work for it; like with your example of girls not asking guys out. Or many other things, for that matter. And it is sexist to put all of that pressure on one-half of the population.

Mr. T said...

Well, I don't think that having to ask a girl out is really a boon for some guys (at least for me anyways.)

Actually, I would really like it if a girl would ask me out. One of the reasons I've never really asked a girl out is because I never really know what they're thinking, so if one of them would actually ask me out, that would be kind of nice.

Society has built up an image of feminists as crazy shrews who want feminine superiority, and that is a wrong interpretation. However, I'm certain there are people out there who do want those things, and believe them to be valid feminist viewpoints, which is what would give feminism what negative views it has.

I'm all for equality between the genders, but I can't support one sex being above the other.

tsizzinc said...

common... gender equality is not true. guys and girls are different, period. why do we care? i dont really know, why do we make a big deal out of it? its not like women are oppressed by men or vise versa, like in older days. now im not saying one gender is better than the other, both are needed for reproduction so both are important. until we create an asexual human being, i dont want to ever be involved with this topic again.

Rachel said...

I guess I am one of those people who wants to be a feminist, but can't quite carry through in modern society. I want equality between the genders, I really do. At the same time, I have also hidden behind the expectation that guys do all the asking out, which is, I suppose, hypocritical on my part. Sorry, my bad, and I will try to expand my horizens in the future. But do we really want complete equality of the sexes? Hang on, let me explain myself. For example, in cross country, guys in general run faster than girls in general. The fact simply stands that, generally speaking, guys are taller than the gals, and therefore faster. Although, for the most part (with regard to intelligence, competance, and stereotypical gender roles) the abilities of guys and girls are not gender based, I think it is important to accept the differences between the genders as they are, and move on. We should see them as just differences, nothing negative nothing positive, and certainly not reason to raise one gender above the other, either way. This leads me to another question; are the behavioural differences between the genders completely society-induced, or is it something of a mix between societal and instinctual?

CaitlinCeara said...

I'm with Rachel. I want to be the all around power woman of the times. But I, like many girls, have what Dani calls the Disney complex. I think that many women still take the subordinate role because they want to. Now before you begin hating me, hear me out.

Most girls want to be swept off thier feet by thier own prince charming. Most girls want to feel taken care of and protected. I don't know if its nature or nurture, but even the toughest girls I know admit to this stereotypical desire. My mom, the bra-burning woman she is, commented on how amazingly romantic it is in "The Sound of Music" when Maria demurely looks down when she dances with the Capitan.

I think that women promote the sexism that requires men to take the first step. And I'm sorry guys, but I like it. I think that sooner or later we as a society have to accpet some forms of descrimination because they can't, or won't, be changed

Todd said...

I wouldn't mind if a girl asked me out, I don't think it's a big deal, but some might. On a logical standpoint, girls should ask guys out if there is a true equality between the sexes, but isn't there a phrase saying "there is no logic in emotion"? In any case, the fact is, our society has drilled in plenty of things in our minds on what is acceptable and what is not and of course personal beliefs, emotions, etc has an influence. So I leave with the notion yes I think that if one wants true equality between the sexes then the stereotypes needs to be broken, but any society will always have these stereotypes and therefore I don't think an equality of the sexes will be obtained on an absolute level, but there might and probably already are people who at least attempt to live their lives in the notion of equality in sexes.

ethan_is_ninja said...

I agree with TC, there will NEVER be equality between men and women. There hasn't been in the past million years and there centainly won't been soon. From a scientific and unbiased perspective, it is proven that the strongest man is stronger than the strongest female and faster than the fastest female.

Male 100m - 9.77 seconds
Female 100m - 10.49 seconds
Male 400m - 43.18 seconds
Female 400m - 47.60 seconds
Male 10km - 27:02 minutes
Female 10km - 30:21 minutes
Male Marathon - 2:04:55 hours
Female Marathon - 2:15:25 hours
Male Long Jump - 8.95 meters
Female Long Jump - 7.52 meters
Male Shotput - 23.12 meters
Female Shotput - 22.63 meters
Male 100m Freestyle Swimming - 21.64 seconds
Female 100m Freestyle Swimming - 24.13 seconds
Male 800m Freestyle Swimming - 7:38:65 minutes
Female 800m Freestyle Swimming - 8:16:22 minutes
Male Clean and Jerk 62kg - 182 kilograms
Male Clean and Jerk 77kg - 210 kilograms
Female Clean and Jerk 63kg - 138 kilograms
Female Clean and Jerk 75kg - 152 kilograms
Skating 1000m Male - 1:24:67 minutes
Skating 1000m Female - 1:30:04
Single Scull Rowing Male(who knows how far) - 6:35.4 minutes
Single Scull Rowing Female(who knows how far) - 7:07.71 minutes
Deca-Ironman (10 ironman runs in a row!) Male - 200:26 minutes
Deca-Ironman (10 ironman runs in a row!) Female - 249:14.52 minutes

However women have better memories and four times as many brain cells as men.

It is by nature that men and women are different and will always be different, until there is a unisex gender. Which would be weird.

Dani said...

As Caitlin said, most girls do want to live the Disney dream. Who wouldn't want to be rescued by a prince on a white horse? (well, me but thats besides the point. Who could seriously ride a horse in one of those dresses?) I mean we grow up with Cinderella, Snow White, and Sleeping Beauty, not to mention Aladdin (don't even get em started on Jasmine). Girls stereotypically dont want a shy guy, because that can translate into someone who wont stand up for themselves, and if they wont even stand up for themselves then how is the girl supposed to trust that they will stand up for her?
I also believe that it can come from family influence, for example, my mothers side is heavily southern, and her mom raised her to go to college to get a mrs degree. My ACT prep instructor honestly wanted me to go to Colorado School of Mines because they're are more guys than girls there, and it would be easy to meet guys.
I think that now the social stigma is changing, and although its more acceptable for girls to be the more aggressive one, theres still that tradition attached.

Mr. Pseudonym said...

To specifically ethan_is_ninja and tsizzinc:

As much as physical differences may make some difference between male and female, it seems hardly fair that that is all that this is based on. I personally can't come even close to any of those abilities, and all those women are stronger than me, does this mean that I am destined to a life of solitude due to my genetic incompatibility. I know of no one who is weaker than me, so therefore I am inferior to both women and men? Physical differences do not constitute social differences.

tsizzinc said...

ummmm... i was talking about sexually physically, not strength.

ethan_is_ninja said...
This comment has been removed by the author.
susanna.w said...

I don't think Feminism has all that much to do with asking a guy out. I'm a girl. I don't ask people out because it's not how I've been raised and not a tradition. Guys ask girls out and propose to them because its tradition that was built up back when it was unacceptable for girls to even think about courting a man. Today's society is much more equal and people are totally okay with girls asking guys out. It's just that its built up background tradition, for me.

Kaci said...

I am a feminist by the definition given. To answer the question of why girls don't ask people out, personally I have asked more people out than I have been asked. Like Susanna I was raised in the tradition of the guys ask. I went against it because most of the time if you want to date someone it is easier just to go and ask. So what if you get rejected, it hurts but you can get over it, the regret of never trying will stay with you forever.

katrina337 said...

I think it's interesting that society today is flipped from how it was a couple thousand years ago in villages in Europe, and people still say that women can't be equal to or greater than men because of physical comparison.

Sara said...

Oh, darn. I was going to write about bra-burning, but when I googled it, it appears to be an urban myth. In any case, in the 60s and 70s there was a movement of "bralessness" to protest the "torture" of wearing bras and conforming to the socially accepted woman's figure. (Sorry, I know I'm deviating from the dating questions, but this pertains to feminism and ways that women oppress themselves)
I know that most girls in high school wear bras, and I think most people are uncomfortable with the idea of going bra-less. It is just something to think about that this is so regressive. I'm not quite sure how to approach this in a TOK fashion...

kyle said...

in response to TC, I disagree with the statement he made about how women aren't oppresed by men anymore, things aren't perfect. It's ignorant to assume that everything is ok now. Ecspecially looking at other more traditional cultures women are very oppresed. Women and Men are different but no one should judge based on gender. In response to Sara I know a lot of girls who don't wear bras and they find it altogether more comfortable.

Dani said...

I was just surfing the web and found this....thought it might be an interesting point of view to present: